|
Post by orochigeese on Aug 10, 2006 22:09:36 GMT -5
I can't believe this. I have never seen this happen in Fire Pro before, from FPD to FPR. Today around 6pm I was video simming my n event for LAWL. (Jeff/Marie Reyes vs. Reade/Ruby Moreno) Pretty good match but didn't get the ending I wanted. Now after finishing simming, i had some other stuff to do. ALso shut my PS2 off cuase of a major lightning storm that I was afraid would fry my memory card or something similar. So i turn my PS2 back on around 10pm or so but am still doing ohter things on the computer. But finally, i go to sim the tag match I wanted to earlier (Jeff/Marie Reyes vs. Reade/Ruby Moreno). I shit you all not. It was the SAME exact match. The CPU simmed the SAME Match for me...down to a funny semiglitch that happened in the first 2 minutes. So within 5 hours, Fire Pro simmed the same exact match. I am 100% certain here, and this is no exaggeration. Deja Vu...full f'n force and REAL. And let me be clear: 1) These edits have had MANY different matches and have a great deal of variety in their logic. I have simmed this match a lot in the last few weeks and got so many differnet matches. 2) THis was the SAME match, move for move. Hot tag by hot tag. Has anyone else ever seen the same exact match TWICE? EVER?
|
|
|
Post by Smacked Ass on Aug 10, 2006 22:34:24 GMT -5
Yup, it happens on RAW and Smackdown every week.
|
|
|
Post by motosada on Aug 10, 2006 22:46:28 GMT -5
I have, on the GBA. And not, like, the ROM; the actual game. I just sat there, looking at my GBA, thinking "did I really just see this happen?"
I also had it happen on FPR while I was trying to sim Akira vs 50CENTAVOS for the Evo.R show.
|
|
|
Post by Steve on Aug 10, 2006 23:03:30 GMT -5
I've had it happen in various FP's... I've even seen the same match 3 times in a row once.
|
|
|
Post by orochigeese on Aug 10, 2006 23:15:24 GMT -5
Yup, it happens on RAW and Smackdown every week. LOL, your post wins And wow, i guess you guys have seen this before. I never really have and considering how often I tend to sim the same matches (for video), im surprised! It was such a weird sense of deja vu...a few hours later. I thought I had further lost my mind!
|
|
|
Post by gbomber on Aug 11, 2006 2:30:54 GMT -5
I've had it happen a few times.
I know I've told a few people that FP simmed matches are done 'simming' by the time you get to the "tonight's match up" screen. you can test it easy with FPW1 or 2 for the GBA. save a state when you have your cursor over your last guy. pick him, then sim the match. load, pick the guy and watch the match again. I can near guarantee that it's the same match.
I bet the game just fucks up and keeps a match in memory sometimes.
|
|
|
Post by orochigeese on Aug 11, 2006 3:09:30 GMT -5
I've had it happen a few times. I know I've told a few people that FP simmed matches are done 'simming' by the time you get to the "tonight's match up" screen. you can test it easy with FPW1 or 2 for the GBA. save a state when you have your cursor over your last guy. pick him, then sim the match. load, pick the guy and watch the match again. I can near guarantee that it's the same match. I bet the game just fucks up and keeps a match in memory sometimes. Yeah, in fact I remember discussing that with you during Evo.R chat When I first noticed the match repeat tonight, the first thing I thought about was the convo we had about Fire Pro "pre-simming" everything before the match. And the fact that the same match can happen twice just further proves that!
|
|
|
Post by motosada on Aug 11, 2006 11:54:52 GMT -5
The catch here, tho, is that Geese did a lot of stuff between the first and second matches, including turning his system off. So, how would that even happen, to where the match could be the exact same match, hours apart, and after a system reset?
I can see it if you do them back-to-back, but... I dunno. This just seems completely bizarre. Maybe Davey or JB have some better insight.
|
|
|
Post by Joe Snack Road on Aug 11, 2006 11:58:47 GMT -5
The catch here, tho, is that Geese did a lot of stuff between the first and second matches, including turning his system off. So, how would that even happen, to where the match could be the exact same match, hours apart, and after a system reset? I can see it if you do them back-to-back, but... I dunno. This just seems completely bizarre. Maybe Davey or JB have some better insight. I think Jon has the best theory so far. Maybe FPR is jealous of Smackdown v. Raw? /me tries not to die laughing.
|
|
|
Post by Steve on Aug 11, 2006 12:50:09 GMT -5
Back in the day, when the first GBA game came out, and Gene was like, ALL strikes... I'd sit around all day and sim Dante/Gene over, and over, and over, and OVER, hoping against hope that my little white haired guy could somehow pull out a miraculous victory at a better ratio than 1:20. He rarely did better than that, so, I set out to make a purposely strong edit, for the specific task of slapping Gene stupid (you all know him as DBM). ANYWAY... Back then, I'd see Dante and Gene's sims play out the same a LOT... and I'd often see duplicates, but not back to back. Like, I'd see match A, then matches B, C, D, then A would happen again.
|
|
|
Post by orochigeese on Aug 11, 2006 15:23:31 GMT -5
The catch here, tho, is that Geese did a lot of stuff between the first and second matches, including turning his system off. So, how would that even happen, to where the match could be the exact same match, hours apart, and after a system reset? I can see it if you do them back-to-back, but... I dunno. This just seems completely bizarre. Maybe Davey or JB have some better insight. I know this is a ridiculous theory but i had to mention it for full disclosure: During the time between the first and second matches (where the PS2 was turned off)...i was working on the LAWL Jakob Furis angle... I'm just saying...that's all. That maybe he cursed my PS2 Also amusing, right before I turned my PS2 off last night, i decided to give the n event one more shot and got exactly the match I wanted That "one more try" thing works a lot for me in Fire pro!!
|
|
|
Post by gbomber on Aug 11, 2006 18:18:56 GMT -5
So, how would that even happen, to where the match could be the exact same match, hours apart, and after a system reset? I can see it if you do them back-to-back, but... I dunno. This just seems completely bizarre. Maybe Davey or JB have some better insight. magic is probably a shitload of it. maybe, just maybe, Fire Pro determines matches depending on what minute the system is turned on, and three hours later, he turned his system on the same minute he had and with the same people, his first match was the same. fuck if I know, I've never heard of anyone delving into the matchsimming component of the game. I just think it's quirky how the game sims matches. if you've watched enough, you can see the occasional glitchup between two wrestlers - like, in OG-FPD Joshi, that ppv match 'twixt Lana and Cross - there was a part early in where Lana and Cross are on the mid-line, Lana downs Cross, uses a ground attack, then moves to the corner to attempt a corner to center move, despite Cross being OBVIOUSLY off the mid-line because of Lana's own ground attack. did the computer see the two were on the mid-line, schedule Lana to do the corner to center, but become foiled due to it's inability to realize that Lana's ground move, scheduled before the corner to center, would make Cross roll out of the way? did this event completely screw up the pre-determined course of events? did it fucking matter at all? that's what gets me. of couse, this just brings up what computer opponents are really doing against human players, as coming up with a match beforehand would be RETARDED BEYOND BELIEF, because it's unlikely the human would play predictably. though, honestly, when I play against my own edits, I tend to see a bit more of what I consider "their" style. maybe that's just straight logic like we all set up our logic to play out like. oooh, how I'd like to be savvy enough to delve into the guts of this game, somedays. *edit* I'm also glad I'm not the only person who was making edits for the sole purpose of killing other edits back in M-DWF =P Rick Fatal was brought in to 'beat' Apoc, but I knew he'd job to Apoc most of the time. most of it was him being M sized, I think. however, the original Fatal was probably one of most winning oriented edits I've ever made - excepting Buck Adams in the C-CWA, with his DEFAULT LOGIC of DOOM - he killed most everyone else.
|
|
|
Post by orochigeese on Aug 11, 2006 18:40:16 GMT -5
if you've watched enough, you can see the occasional glitchup between two wrestlers - like, in OG-FPD Joshi, that ppv match 'twixt Lana and Cross - there was a part early in where Lana and Cross are on the mid-line, Lana downs Cross, uses a ground attack, then moves to the corner to attempt a corner to center move, despite Cross being OBVIOUSLY off the mid-line because of Lana's own ground attack. did the computer see the two were on the mid-line, schedule Lana to do the corner to center, but become foiled due to it's inability to realize that Lana's ground move, scheduled before the corner to center, would make Cross roll out of the way? did this event completely screw up the pre-determined course of events? did it fucking matter at all? that's what gets me. of couse, this just brings up what computer opponents are really doing against human players, as coming up with a match beforehand would be RETARDED BEYOND BELIEF, because it's unlikely the human would play predictably. Wow, those are very good observations! Especially the part about whether or not the cpu messed itself up by not realizing the effect of Lana's ground move BEFORE the corner-center attack. It goes to show that maybe the cpu is kind of foiled sometimes by certain moves and then has to readjust its strategy. Had Lana done like a giant swing instead of maybe a strike, the whole match could have changed even more! So yeah...how much of this is predetermined? Does the cpu take each wrestlers' MOVES into account when they sim the match before the match starts? Or do mistakes happen in the cpu plan/strategy based on it NOT taking into account each wrestlers' moves? Let's say that before the match started, the game had Lana going for the ground move and then corner->center. Did Lana's moveset cause the game to have to improvise? Or was everything we saw part of the plan to begin with? As for cpu vs. player, I'm guessing the cpu just goes about its logic as its programmed per every new situation. I can't imagine that th entire match is planned out just because it cant be. The cpu cant possibly know what I'll do. But i imagine what the cpu DOES do is come up with a specific plan for EVERY situation it finds itself in. If thats even possible. But i guess a cpu could do that. Somehow determine that if it has a front grapple at the 5 minute mark and im at low damage, it will chop. But if its the 5 minute mark and im high damage, it will powerbomb me. Like maybe it just has taken every possible situation into account and has a solution for all of them regardless if each situation happens or not. This is funny, we're getting all metaphysical about Fire Pro and the "Free will/predetermination" debate for the cpu simming soul
|
|
|
Post by motosada on Aug 11, 2006 18:57:04 GMT -5
Somehow determine that if it has a front grapple at the 5 minute mark and im at low damage, it will chop. But if its the 5 minute mark and im high damage, it will powerbomb me. Um... isn't that the entire point of the CPU Logic? Anyway. We can extrapolate that the computer DOES set up a match right as the participants are being selected, based on what the selected participants have to offer. Otherwise, the FPWA "save state" trick just wouldn't work. The question, tho, is with the how. Does it actually play out those matches bit-for-bit upon that last competitor being highlighted? Does it leave room for improvision? Does it select from a huge list of possible matches where every second is already calculated? WHERE'S HUMAN TO ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS IN BROKEN ENGLISH?!
|
|
|
Post by Joe Snack Road on Aug 11, 2006 23:19:51 GMT -5
Rick Fatal was brought in to 'beat' Apoc, but I knew he'd job to Apoc most of the time. most of it was him being M sized, I think. however, the original Fatal was probably one of most winning oriented edits I've ever made - excepting Buck Adams in the C-CWA, with his DEFAULT LOGIC of DOOM - he killed most everyone else. Chapel only exists because of Dante having the Blackout at 25% at Near Death. I wanted a big power guy with a pinning finisher on purpose.
|
|