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Post by Slime on Sept 3, 2009 22:29:18 GMT -5
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Post by Smacked Ass on Sept 3, 2009 22:30:46 GMT -5
As long as he's just talking and not "saving".  |
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Post by Slime on Sept 4, 2009 19:35:29 GMT -5
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Post by motosada on Sept 5, 2009 0:48:39 GMT -5
I've only sold two copies of Muramasa at work; one to a former co-worker who's a very strong believer in the "games as art" argument and an avid gamer, and the other to myself. Ha.
It's a real shame, too. This game is freaking amazing, but nobody is going to buy it. Just proof positive that people are freaking idiots and will buy swill before art.
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Post by orochigeese on Sept 5, 2009 1:59:40 GMT -5
It's a Wii game that isn't a 1) casual game or a 2) Nintendo 1st party game. If it does as well as Mad World or No More Heroes, it should consider itself lucky. And that's coming from someone who intends to buy it. But i mean, these 3rd party artistic games just don't have the big audience on the Wii. Despite the fact the Wii has a bigger audience then other consoles, games like this just don't have their target audience in the Wii audience for the most part. It's why Suda is gonna take No More Heroes to PS3 after NMH 2.
It's too bad. But the majority of the millions who bought a Wii for Wii fit for casual Wii tennis is just not interested in a game like this. I'd venture some of them are even offended it exists.
Even if the audience who were into this game bought two copies each, it wouldn't make a dent. Wii has a weird split audience and guys like us are in the minority. I think it's amazing games like this keep coming out (though this game was in development for so long it really had no idea how the Wii demographic would end up) and I hope they do, but I wouldn't be surprised to see stuff like this start being limited to Wiiware where their production costs are lower and people are more likely to spend $15 for a quick download.
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Post by motosada on Sept 5, 2009 2:17:05 GMT -5
As much as I love Vanillaware's games, I just think it's a crying shame that nobody gives a shit about all this amazing loving work they do for a public that could care less just because it isn't 3D and it doesn't have guns and a 1940's Germany setting. It angers me - it hurts me in my emotions - that a game like this is going to get passed by because of what makes it great; its ascetic. I mean, seriously; a hand-painted video game? How does that not tell the public "THESE PEOPLE LOVE YOU ENOUGH TO PAINT ALL OF THIS INSTEAD OF CHEAPING OUT ON 3D MODELS"? It's... shameful.
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Post by MRW1215 on Sept 5, 2009 7:33:10 GMT -5
Muramasa looks pretty cool, but a sidescroller console game is kind of a tough sell to me, these days, especially when it's a full priced game. That's not to put down the game in any way, shape, or form; just a personal preference. I WILL keep an eye on it, though, and when it (inevitably) gets a big slash in the price, I'd probably be willing to pick it up.
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Post by motosada on Sept 5, 2009 9:06:12 GMT -5
No, dude. No way. This game is freaking amazing. It's worth every drop of $50. Unless you've already played Odin Sphere, then I can guarantee that you've never played a game that looks like this; it's just an amazingly beautiful game, and it's incredibly fun to boot.
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Post by MRW1215 on Sept 5, 2009 11:25:07 GMT -5
Odin Sphere was another one that caught my eye, but I just couldn't justify buying that game, either. Again, I'm sure Muramasa is a great game, but I'm a bit "biased" in that seeing a sidescroller game, that probably doesn't have a very lengthy single player mode (I'd assume it's fairly short, right? Assuming I wouldn't be looking for a 100% complete run through, which I almost never do in ANY game, anyway), I just don't know that I'd love it enough to justify that much money on. Now, were it on DS (or maybe even PSP), I'd probably snatch it up without a thought. But with money as tight as it is, and with a backlog as big as mine (with little time to burn through it between work and college), all topped off with the fact that I'm not completely sold on Muramasa's concept, can you really blame me for holding out for a price drop?
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Post by motosada on Sept 5, 2009 17:16:49 GMT -5
I suppose not, but there's a lot more than just a quick 2D side-scroller playthrough. Two characters with two completely different stories and multiple endings, three different play styles (Shuro, Muso, and "Hell" (I haven't seen it unlocked yet, so I'm not quite sure what it's called)) which not only tweak the play, but the challenge as well, there's a lot more than just getting a 100% finish. Which, actually, I'm not even sure if there's something like that in this game (it's my understanding that certain swords are only available to a particular character and in particular modes). I'll have to check into that.
But Muramasa, as it stands, is a lovely return to an older style of games, using techniques possible today to make the art truly artful. I mean, you played Shadow Complex, right? It's the "16-bit"-style gameplay just with a different take on "good graphics".
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Post by orochigeese on Sept 5, 2009 17:54:56 GMT -5
I don't think there should be any assumption that "2d" + "side scroller" games deserve less then any other game really. It's all in the implementation. I think Mega Man 9 was worth more then the $10-15 I paid for it.
While I'm not a huge personal fan of the "castletroid" games (cause back-tracking irritates me), I think one would be hard pressed to say that if Symphony of the Night came out now, it wouldn't have enough replay value to justify a $50 purchase. Especially in contrast to the shallow, repetitive 3d games out there.
I'm not sure how close Odin Sphere was to Muramasa as I never played...well either (the latter being a more forgivable offense for like another week ;D). But it seems to me that the amount of things you can do in Muramasa are pretty incredible. And aren't just the traditional side scroller game.
That all said, I'm not ready to say though that just cause a developer poured their heart out, that it necessarily translates into value for the consumer (or even a niche target group like in this case). I'm more concerned with what a game has to offer me rather then the time/effort put into it. Of course its rare that a deep game can just "PFFT" into existence with out the dedication of a company but I'm still keen on drawing the fine line between consumer value and producer effort. Otherwise we're pretty much just ROH fans of a product and will clap for effort rather then product and are more concerned with the producer's negotiation skills then the enjoyment we may/may not have playing the game. And we'd chant. A LOT.
Anyway, I think Muramasa will probably sell REALLY well right away based on the people looking forward to it. Then it will either get positive word of mouth and steadily grow or become dead in the water. If the latter case happens, I hope VanillaWare realizes the audience just wasn't keen on it. I'm sure I won't think the game is perfect but it's already shown me enough to make me know that lack of sales is simply cause their target group was too small (and the price too high outside that group) on the wrong console.
What lesson other companies learn from this is pretty indicative of the Wii's future. The Mad World's, the No More Heroes, and the Muramasa's could go to PS3 or Wiiware. Or DS like Okami.
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Post by Slime on Sept 6, 2009 12:18:19 GMT -5
I completed the first level of Muramasa and it was pretty damn fun. But, all I really did was mindless slashing, even on the boss. Running through the empty rooms is kinda awkward, but it only hungers me more for more battles.
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Post by motosada on Sept 6, 2009 12:32:40 GMT -5
You're playing on Shuro, aren't ya? Try Muso. Totally different experience.
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Post by orochigeese on Sept 7, 2009 17:04:46 GMT -5
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Post by orochigeese on Sept 18, 2009 2:51:34 GMT -5
Muramasa mini review.
It's really fun, especially during battles. I just went right to Muso level and I'm glad I did cause the battles are the most fun, the first boss battle was cool. The game moves really quick and there was a little Marvel vs. Capcom action in it which I like. Nothing as deep of course but still fun.
I would have liked there to have been more save points or some warp feature cause there's just so much traversing the landscape. I traversed like 10 empty (in terms of things I could interact with) screens after the first boss and it was just kinda needless.
Art is amazing, obviously. No surprise but it still really hits you when you're playing it. The story (I picked Momohimi to start) is pretty cool and the way they speak is right up my alley.
I enjoy the game\ but I do wish the fighting was deeper and there was just more to do on many screens besides collect soul bubbles and have the occasional fight. In some ways it feels like Lost Winds with the "emptiness" but obviously with quick as hell sword fighting. Granted I'm still just starting out but these are my initial thoughts. I don't regret the purchase though whether it's worth $50 is a bit of a question.
I can totally appreciate everything the game was trying to do from its artistic style and presentation. But I think if it had a bit less openness the world would come together better AND be more fun. But again, an hour into it, so take my opinion with a grain of ceremonial salt to throw in Bret Hart's eyes ;D
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