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Post by Steve on Jun 26, 2007 22:13:22 GMT -5
The people complaining about the tribute are so dense. Hindsight is one thing, but if they would stop and think, does anyone honestly believe they'd have run that with all the wrestlers saying how great he was and how he loved his family if they had any clue what had actually happened?
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Post by orochigeese on Jun 26, 2007 22:41:21 GMT -5
I agree, and think WWE has handled this whole situation EXTREMELY well.
The media would have gotten on WWE even if they hadn't run a tribute show. They would have said that WWE just uses up and discards their talent and has no feelings.
WWE was "damned if they did, damned if they didn't" with every step of this situation in the perception of those that hate WWE and pro wrestling. But i think they were right to run the tribute show when they did...who could have expected this situation to turn out this way!?
And they also seem to have handled tonight's ECW situation well too along with removing Benoit from a lot of sections of their website. I do not envy WWE and Vince's position right now and the assault they are about to take, but I think they've handled everything perfectly at this point.
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Post by Spunk on Jun 26, 2007 23:53:52 GMT -5
Well, the work rate thing wasn't directed at you, it was just in general. The fact I'm seeing endless Benoit/Eddie RIP sigs and people just basically dismissing him killing his family is shocking and downright scary. If you want to see just straight up crazy shit, the DVDVR thread on this is just crazy. I made one post, it was along the lines of;
"HE KILLED HIS SON AND HIS FUCKING WIFE. Why is that man your hero?"
... And decided it was worthless. So many people just talking about his great matches and stuff, and hey, thats great, but when the subject of him, you know, killing people comes up... christ.
Benoit has always gotten a pass on people when this stuff surfaces (well, most of the time it didn't.. As Meltzer liked Benoit and would only mention stuff in passing, never accusatory or anything), and it is frustrating.
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Post by orochigeese on Jun 27, 2007 0:18:46 GMT -5
Well, the work rate thing wasn't directed at you, it was just in general. The fact I'm seeing endless Benoit/Eddie RIP sigs and people just basically dismissing him killing his family is shocking and downright scary. If you want to see just straight up crazy shit, the DVDVR thread on this is just crazy. I made one post, it was along the lines of; "HE KILLED HIS SON AND HIS FUCKING WIFE. Why is that man your hero?" ... And decided it was worthless. So many people just talking about his great matches and stuff, and hey, thats great, but when the subject of him, you know, killing people comes up... christ. Benoit has always gotten a pass on people when this stuff surfaces (well, most of the time it didn't.. As Meltzer liked Benoit and would only mention stuff in passing, never accusatory or anything), and it is frustrating. Yeah, I can understand that. It IS frustrating that the negatives haven't been given about him to the same frequency as others. And I don't doubt that his in ring skills were a reason for that. For me, his in ring skills were a big part of my fandom for him but that was bolstered by what I thought was a genuinely good human being. Obviously, I just didn't have enough information about that. Cause I can really say I NEVER heard anything remotely negative about Benoit aside from the "stealing Woman away from Sullivan" thing. And even that, its not like Woman went against her will (as far as we know). Aside from that, i've never heard anything negative. Nothing about backstage bullying or his bad fathering skills. I wish I had, i really do. This last two days have been a literal freefall of my fandom and that's hard to do when I've heard so many positive things about him (in addition to meeting him and him being really classy to me). I would have much rather heard about the negatives and saw him as he was from the start. But yeah, I don't doubt there are some fuckwads who are refusing to look at the reality of the situation and see that Benoit isn't some god. People who are ignoring the crimes he just committed or downplaying it. The fact they are looking at him as a "dead great wrestler" first before a "murderous child-killing swine" is very upsetting. Your work rate comment only got to me cause I didn't see people making those observations. But hearing that's what you came across makes me understand and agree why you said it. The discussions I saw were pretty good at taking Benoit to task for things, but I would also be pretty nauseas to see people more concentrated on Benoit's wrestling ability now then the fact he killed two people.
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Post by Steve on Jun 27, 2007 8:28:58 GMT -5
I deleted DVDVR out of my bookmarks last night. It was driving me crazy, but it was like looking at a car wreck, I couldn't stop looking, so I finally just got rid of it.
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Post by Joe Snack Road on Jun 27, 2007 12:42:03 GMT -5
Not to be sensationalistic or anything; but I kind of see why so many people turn to religion - the shapeless conformity of idea never betrays your beliefs of them by acting out of sorts.
I thought Benoit was one of those pro wrestler "Life as a character" people, meaning if you met Benoit outside of the WWE environment, he'd be quiet and polite and whatever. That he snapped, killed his wife, killed his son, then commit suicide, along with all these NEW FOUND OMG REVELATIONS about him just kind of sicken me that I thought his story of hard work and pushing harder than ever before in pro wrestling was inspiring and something to look up to.
I think I'm gonna go pray to the color blue now.
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Post by jddelphin on Jun 27, 2007 16:10:56 GMT -5
Benoit is done. That's that. He killed his wife and seven year old son. Whatever good he did in wrestling is done. Banished. Over. Everyone banked on Benoit as a guy who 'made it real' or 'let you believe it was real' as opposed to a guy who was pushing himself to the breaking point. -and then broke.
Arn Anderson was better than Benoit he gave 100% all the time, but he never pushed outside of reality. There have been hundreds of people better than Benoit overall- Benoit just pushed really really hard... now I'm just rambling... Benoit was a control freak, ocd sufferer with anger issues and an apparent 'little man' complex. Wrestling should never speak of him again. His immortality has been revoked.
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Post by Spunk on Jun 27, 2007 17:49:57 GMT -5
Creepy fact: Benoit's son had a form of dwarfism, and it was believed that his son has been on HGH for a long, long time now as Benoit has always been down on his son for being so small.
There is no way to explain how disgusted I am.
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~danthrax
Undercard
TEH DAN~!!!
I am potent in small doses. In large doses, I cause cirrhosis.
Posts: 49
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Post by ~danthrax on Jun 27, 2007 18:35:43 GMT -5
The only situation that makes any sense to me is that maybe the he didn't mean to kill both of them from the start...
It's just speculation on my part, but maybe he killed his wife in a fit of rage, and immediately felt remorse... somehow (fucked in the head as he was) rationalizing that the only way to show mercy upon his son for effectively now losing both parents' was to remove him from the world. Then the grief eats at him and he rationalizes ending his own life since basically he had nothing to live for anymore... (career over, family gone... ) That would seem to explain the span of time between the murders...
I mean, even though that's not REALLY any better, it seems more understandable then him just going "I'mma keel everyone" from the get-go.
I keep hearing about how much shit he gave that poor little boy about his size and everything, but I cannot fathom him NOT loving his family.
What about his kids from his other marriage? They seem well-balanced... Was he not a big part of their lives?
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Post by Spunk on Jun 27, 2007 18:53:22 GMT -5
They were a part of his life, but since they were from his previous marriage, they didn't live with him.
The thing that bothers me is his son was mildly retarded.
I don't think he planned on killing his son o wife, I think he flipped out, killed his wife and then had no clue what to do with himself. He somehow rationalized killing his son and then killing himself.
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Post by motosada on Jun 27, 2007 20:30:02 GMT -5
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Post by Spunk on Jun 30, 2007 18:35:35 GMT -5
Scary as shit stuff from this week's WON:
"Dave confirmed he used a form of the Crippler Crossface on Daniel. This is interesting since Bryan was adamant that the story was bullshit. Apparently investigators found marks on the boys arm and neck that they didn't understand and upon watching a tape of a Benoit match and seeing the move it made sense. They just said it was a "choke" as to not further sensationalize an already sensationalized story.
-Dave said Bryan was closer to Benoit (he found his writing hilarious) then he was and that Dave hardly ever talked to Chris (while Bryan seemed to indicate semi regular contact). Thought that was interesting as we rib Bryan about getting all his sources through Dave but I never thought he'd have more access to someone like Benoit then Dave.
-Benoit got a prescription for the anti-depressant Xanax at the doctor's visit on Friday.
-Benoit started going downhill after Eddy died because he lost the one guy who he could confide in and shared his problems with. Apparently close friends always knew Benoit had the same problems as Eddy (pills, etc.) and suggested Benoit seriously needed to see a therapist but no one suggested it since he wasn't the type to be open to that sort of thing.
-Apparently the death of Johnny Grunge hit Benoit even harder then Eddy since they were neighbors and him and Nancy fighting was somewhat common and he'd be the one to come over and defuse situations and make Chris laugh. After he died, Chris didn't have that buffer when things got out of control.
-Chris and Nancy had recently separated for a period of time, and Dave received a change of address form for an apartment different then their house (I believe Bryan mentioned he got a different address too).
-Chris recently opened up a new life insurance claim naming his ex-wife and his older 2 kids as the beneficiaries and refused to include Nancy or Daniel.
-When there were rumors of him leaving for TNA, Dave asked him about it and Chris was paranoid thinking Dave had inside info that WWE was going to release him. He apparently may have thought ECW was a demotion and the next step would be out the door. He was reportedly obsessed with establishing himself at the HHH/HBK level. He had grown increasingly paranoid that someone was out to get him and didn't let Nancy leave the house at night or Daniel to play outside and would take different routes from the airport home each time in case he was being followed.
-Nancy confided to a friend in wrestling days before the murders that she feared for her life and the friend told her to go take Daniel to her parents place in Florida (as she had done before when Chris became violent) but she didn't this time. Apparently she had a lockbox at the bank with notes indicating if something happened to her, it was Chris.
-Theory is that she told him she was leaving him for good and taking Daniel and that's when he snapped on her. Loved his son and when she filed for divorce all he wanted was joint custody. Theory is he killed Daniel because in his mind he couldn't bare to let him be alone without his parents and in his condition so it was a "mercy killing".
-Someone in WWE informed Dave before the RAW show that Chris had killed them, but others in the company were unaware but at least someone high up knew before the tribute show was put on the air.
-Dave says he can't write a proper obit/career retrospect and doesn't know if he ever will."
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Post by Smacked Ass on Jun 30, 2007 18:40:45 GMT -5
Sorry, but who is "Dave"?
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Post by Spunk on Jun 30, 2007 18:43:12 GMT -5
Dave Meltzer, the like, only wrassling journalist that can be somewhat taken seriously and writer of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter. The only thing close is Bryan Alvarez who does the Figure 4 Weekly.
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Post by orochigeese on Jun 30, 2007 19:06:11 GMT -5
This is an extremely disturbing report.
The fact he used some crossface variation is ... just, i don't even have words for it. I mean the guy is bound to know a lot of different chokes. but to use a variant of his finisher on his defenseless son...yuck.
It has been speculated this week that Eddie was one of the few people "keeping Benoit together". That isn't so much of a surprise but I am surprised that Johnny Grunge played a big part in settling Benoit domestic disputes as a 'buffer'. I didnt know him and their family were close.
This whole thing just gets weirder and more disturbing. The life insurance thing, Nancy's lock box, Benoit depressed, on pills, paranoid. This is a very different man then a lot of people thought they knew.
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